Why you should avoid the Unholy podcast
Why you should avoid the Unholy podcast
Though it bills itself as two Jews on the news, it repeatedly fails to ask the important questions
An aspect of Judaism that outsiders may not necessarily know or recognize is that debate is a central part of the religious and cultural tradition. On the religious side, disagreements exist throughout the Torah and the Talmud. On the cultural side, arguments are not unwelcome at a dinner table. (I remember having a massive, nuclear argument with Josh in the year 2000 in Vilnius. I can’t remember what it was about. Josh doesn’t remember it.) There is a reason why the phrase “two Jews, three opinions” persists. If someone is hosting a Jewish-themed podcast, then I believe that debate and disagreement should feature prominently because there are deadly serious matters confronting the Jewish community nowadays.
And there are many issues to debate, including…
the widening gulf between Israel and young diaspora Jews,
the inherent tension between Israel’s ethnic particularism and universal Western values,
whether Israel can be both a Jewish and democratic state,
how Israel’s war on Gaza and Hamas’ Oct. 7th attacks challenge our understanding of “Never Again” for anyone or “Never Again” for Jews,
whether anti-Zionism is truly antisemitism,
rising antisemitism in the diaspora.
Granted, that’s a challenging menu of issues in need of discussion. But we need to talk about them openly and honestly for the sake of all Jews. The alternative is to tolerate the epigrammatic excrement like this opinion. And all of this lede-burying brings me to my problems with Unholy: Two Jews on the News podcast.
To my mind, there are several.
The podcast, at times, engages in shlilat hagalut, the idea that Israel should be the beginning and end point for all Jews and Judaism. This is exemplified by the final episode of 2023, “Motherland.” Co-host Yonit Levi, chief news anchor of Channel 12, regarded as the leading private broadcaster in Israel, said what “Hamas groupies” — her reference to campus protesters in the U.S. — have done is make “Jews realize that their fate is bound up with Israel. Even the most disconnected Jews feel this year that they are connected to this country.”1 This Pew Research poll on U.S. Jews, from April 2024, indicates Levi’s view is not exactly correct.
Levi’s participation in the podcast creates a structural problem. News anchors are journalists, but they often function as weather vanes. They are skilled at assessing and meeting the national mood; they are less skilled at analyzing events at a deeper level. To the podcast’s credit, Levi’s co-host, Jonathan Freedland of The Guardian, is more analytical and anchored in what’s really happening. He’s a quality journalist and a sharp mind, but the pro-Israeli tribalism overwhelms him.
Consider: when Zone of Interest director Jonathan Glazer delivered his Oscars speech where he “refuted his Jewishness and the Holocaust being hijacked by an occupation”, Unholy interviewed the film’s executive producer, Danny Cohen, who said that Glazer got his speech badly wrong. It would have been a prime opportunity to hear multiple perspectives, including from those who agree with Glazer.
This relates to the second structural flaw. The podcast is produced by Keshet, the Israeli media company, owns Channel 12. Levi is the chief anchor of that station.
It’s not surprising, then, that the podcast has a pro-Israel worldview. That, on its own, is not an issue. But it becomes an issue because of who is invited onto the program. To the show’s credit, they interviewed Ezra Klein back in July, though Israel’s war on Gaza wasn’t the only focus. They’ve also interviewed Amos Harel of Ha’aretz and Dr. Michael Milshtein several times, both of whom are credible analysts. They’ve interviewed Ahmed Fouad AlKhatib and Fania Oz-Salzberger, who are thoughtful and informed.
But here’s a short list of important Jews living in Israel or writing about Israel who haven’t been on the program: Dalia Schiendlin, Peter Beinart, Mairav Zonszein and Nathan Thrall. They don’t all think the same way — Thrall and Zonszein are analytical, Beinart favours a one-state option, Schiendlin is associated with A Land for All — but they have advanced critiques of Israel’s policies and war on Gaza that should be listened to.
Any one of the aformentioned, and many other commentators, could provide clarification and counterpoint to Levi’s excesses. On the May 2nd podcast, “College Break,” Levi described the U.S. campus protesters as “pro-Hamas and anti-American.” She said that it’s worrisome that protestors who chant “from the river to the sea, they want it all.” The protests are a “delegitimization of Israel’s core right to exist.”2
This speaks to another way that Unholy could do better: it could demonstrate a greater appreciation of the different strands of Judaism in the diaspora and attitudes towards Zionism. I want an Israeli-produced show about Jews to interview Shaul Magid about diasporism and Omer Bartov about genocide. I appreciate that this is hard to achieve in Israel at this moment because of the media’s capitulation to the state. Oren Persico of The Seventh Eye notes that Channel 12, Unholy’s backer and Levi’s employer, is under siege.
Channel 12 is facing tight competition from Channel 14 [the Bibist TV station]. It has made the classic mistake of trying to be palatable to everyone, including the fascists who watch Channel 14, and thus provides a platform to people like Yehuda Schlesinger [who called for making the rape of Palestinian detainees at Sde Teiman detention center official policy].3
As someone who teaches news literacy for a living, I find it essential to read and listen to news that you don’t agree with. But Unholy’s special update on the killing of Yahya Sinwar with Shimrit Meir proved a bridge too far for me.
Meir was billed by Levi as an “expert analyst of the Arab world” on Sinwar. This senior foreign affairs advisor to former prime minister Naftali Bennett offered much heat and little light. Sinwar’s killing, said Meir, “was a very good day for humanity and maybe eventually to the people of Gaza as well.” She added that Sinwar’s killing is kind of “like a horror movie when the evil villain is terrorizing everyone and then he’s taken out.” That’s demonization, not learning. As additional background, Meir said that Sinwar was in an Israeli jail for “killing Arab collaborators with Israel.” While that information is useful, it doesn’t address the chances of stopping the war on Gaza and creating a plausible scenario for post-war governance for Palestinians. The information doesn’t address Palestinians as human beings. Lastly, it ignores the cornerstone issue: There cannot be security for Israelis without freedom for Palestinians.
My view is that the Unholy podcast consistently opts for comforting the audience over serious interrogation and inquiry. Confirmation bias, which means to seek information that agrees with our preceived notions, mostly dominates, whether it’s applied to the war on Gaza, the Israel-Palestine conflict and the diaspora. That wastes opportunities to probe important Israeli and Jewish news and issues with greater depth and analysis.
If you’re looking for analysis, try the Tel Aviv Review. Too often, the discussions are academic, but the guests are usually interesting. If you’re looking for news, then the Ha’aretz podcast is your best bet. The podcast and the paper do much more rigorous, detailed job of covering the Jewish world. If you’re feeling particularly bold, then you can listen to Makdisi Street with three Palestinian academic brothers, two in the U.S. and one in Lebanon. It will provide analysis that is not featured in the Western media. If not that, then try Occupied Thoughts from the Foundation for Middle East Peace, which favours a “just, secure and peaceful future for Palestinians and Israelis.” Its podcast offers a host of interviews from Americans to Israelis to Palestinians and beyond.
At this critical point in Jewish and Israeli history, there’s a need for credible information that can transcend our tribal instincts. The Unholy podcast fails to meet that challenge.
Oren Persico was interviewed by 972 Magazine here: https://www.972mag.com/israeli-media-pact-of-silence-gaza/